We asked 11 Senate Republicans about Trump’s indictment. It was all over the place.
“Listen to the podcast,” Sen. Ted Cruz told us.
Former President Donald Trump’s second indictment, a bombshell set of charges related to taking classified federal documents, has once again put the Republican divide about the future of their party on full display.
While many Republicans, including conservatives and Trump allies, have echoed familiar talking points about Trump’s indictment being indicative of partisan bias and politicized investigations, a handful of moderate and establishment lawmakers have expressed concerns about the severity of the allegations. Additionally, some Republicans have openly worried that legal baggage could hurt Trump with swing voters in a general election.
“This is a self-indulgent and self-flagellating exercise, to even consider nominating Donald Trump for the presidency once again,” Sen. Todd Young (R-IN), who has expressed his opposition to Trump’s candidacy, told Vox.
The indictment is the most recent example of a schism in the GOP that has become increasingly pronounced following the January 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection. There are now those who believe Trump and his brand of conservatism are the only way forward for the Republican Party, and those who believe continuing to tie the GOP to Trump will only bring electoral disaster.
Complicating matters is that Trump still has significant backing from the Republican base, with some supporting him more after the second indictment. That makes speaking out against Trump risky, especially for lawmakers up for reelection in 2024. Still, certain party leaders are becoming more vocal regarding concerns about his candidacy.
Conversations with 11 Republican senators this Wednesday pointed to this divide. While Trump’s allies and supporters were adamant that the Justice Department was using a double standard in investigating Trump and declined to criticize his conduct, those who have lost faith in the former president acknowledged that his handling of these documents was wrong and a potential liability.
The case that Trump’s done nothing wrong
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX): “Listen to [my] podcast.”
Li Zhou
I wanted to ask you about Trump’s second indictment. I’m curious if it’s affected your support for him in any way.
Ted Cruz
I think this indictment is disgraceful. It is a political abuse of power. This is the first time in the history of our nation that a president’s administration has indicted a former president. There is an obvious double standard in the Biden Justice Department.
They’re applying standards to President Trump while willfully turning a blind eye to identical conduct and in some instances, even worse conduct by President Biden, and by Hillary Clinton. And the Department of Justice’s willingness to engage as the political enforcers for the DNC has done irreparable damage to the integrity of law enforcement and the integrity of the Department of Justice.
[Editorial note: As Vox’s Nicole Narea explained, there are key differences between the cases of Trump, Clinton, Pence, and Biden that put Trump’s allegations in a league of their own. For example, she notes, none of the other officials ignored a federal subpoena for documents and tried to conceal them as is alleged of Trump. It’s also worth noting that Biden is under federal investigation for holding on to documents he was given access to during the Obama administration, and that he has instructed the DNC not to use Trump’s indictment to attack his 2024 rival.]
Li Zhou
Do you think what President Trump did was wrong by taking those documents?
Ted Cruz
I’ll tell you what, I do a podcast every week, three days a week. Monday’s podcast was entirely about the Trump indictment, it’s 47 minutes long. So I would invite you to listen to it and you can have a 47-minute exclusive interview on precisely this topic.
Li Zhou
Right now, just curious, you know, yes or no, if you think what he did was wrong?
Ted Cruz
Listen to the podcast.
Li Zhou
Okay, and my last question is, do you see this affecting his electability at all in a general election?
Ted Cruz
That’s going to be a question for the voters to decide.
Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-AL), who has endorsed Trump for president: “I think this has just energized his base and turned a lot of people off.”
Li Zhou
I was wondering if Trump’s second indictment has affected your support for him at all.
Tommy Tuberville
Oh, no. No, I was with him last night. He’s more fired up now than he’s ever been. I think this has just energized his base and turned a lot of people off. There’s more people that have done a lot worse than what he’s done that — of course, the FBI and DOJ is run by the White House here. So it’s just a sad situation our country is in right now. Politics.
Li Zhou
Do you think what he did was wrong?
Tommy Tuberville
What he did was wrong? No.
Sen. Mike Braun (R-IN), who has endorsed Trump for president: “His policies have worked well and he’ll have to make the case, you know, with these difficulties, of how that makes the most sense going forward.”
Li Zhou
I wanted to ask if Trump’s second indictment has affected your support for him in any way?
Mike Braun
No, I’ve been quite clear. … His policies have worked well and he’ll have to make the case, you know, with these difficulties, of how that makes the most sense going forward. And my statement I put out, looks like the Justice Department is not equally addressing all issues. So I’m still where I was.
Li Zhou
Do you think what he did was wrong in terms of how he handled the documents?
Mike Braun
I have no comment on that. I think he’s had a lot of folks after him from the get-go. And, you know, we’ll see how it works out. But I think what he did in terms of actually helping Americans through the policies that were in place, somebody is going to need to figure out how to get back to them.
Li Zhou
One last question is, what do you make of some of the electability concerns people have expressed?
Mike Braun
It looks like his poll numbers have gone up. So when it comes to the general election, I’d be more fearful if I were a Democrat when you’ve given us the worst inflation we’ve ever had. And we’re at the highest debt level in the history of the country. And of course, both Republicans and Democrats have contributed to that. But they then double down on it, and I think when it comes down to it, the economy is gonna get weaker due to their policies, when they were controlling all levers of government.
Sen. Steve Daines (R-MT), who has endorsed Trump for president: “It’s politically charged.”
Li Zhou
Does Trump’s second indictment affect your support for him in any way?
Steve Daines
No.
Li Zhou
Do you think what he did was wrong in how he handled the documents?
Steve Daines
Look, you have the sitting president of the United States pushing for his administration to indict his most likely opponent in the 2024 election. It’s politically charged.
Sen. Bill Hagerty (R-TN), who’s endorsed Trump for president: “I think it just highlights the massive political nature of all this.”
Li Zhou
Does Trump’s second indictment affect your support of him in any way?
Bill Hagerty
Not at all. It just further underscores the politicization of the DOJ. And the timing of this, I think is incredibly suspect because [it] comes at a time when the revelations about the Biden family and dealings with Burisma are coming to light. I think it just highlights the massive political nature of all this.
Li Zhou
Do you think what President Trump did was wrong in terms of how he handled the documents?
Bill Hagerty
I have not investigated this nor have I compared how he’s handled it versus Biden versus others. What I understand is that there have been a number of document issues in the past and I don’t know that this is any different.
The case for staying out of the Trump drama
Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA): “Listen, whether it’s Hillary Clinton or whether it’s the president, classified information is classified.”
Li Zhou
I wanted to ask if Trump’s second indictment affects your support for him in any way?
Chuck Grassley
Well, remember, I’m from Iowa. Remember, Iowa is the first-in-the-nation caucus state. So we’re taking no part: me, the governor, [junior Iowa Sen. Joni] Ernst, and the four congressmen are taking no part in it. So if I said anything about Trump now, it’d be interpreted maybe that I’m taking sides one way or the other. And we want everybody to be welcome in Iowa.
Li Zhou
Do you think how he handled the documents was wrong?
Chuck Grassley
Listen, whether it’s Hillary Clinton or whether it’s the president, classified information is classified. But I am worried about how they handled the two different cases. One was prosecuted, one wasn’t. And I think that unfair double standard of justice is wrong under our Constitution, and I think you should leave political bias out of the FBI.
Sen. Deb Fischer (R-NE): “My comments are I’m always happy to talk policy.”
Li Zhou
I wanted to ask if Trump’s second indictment affects your support for him at all?
Deb Fischer
I just am focused. We’re doing a markup on [reauthorizing the Federal Aviation Administration] FAA tomorrow. If you want to talk about that, I’d be happy to [talk about that].
Li Zhou
Do you have any comment on —
Deb Fischer
My comments are I’m always happy to talk policy.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX): “I think anybody who takes classified documents out of a secure setting is wrong.”
Li Zhou
Do you think what Trump did was wrong in terms of taking classified documents?
John Cornyn
I think anybody who takes classified documents out of a secure setting is wrong.
Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA): “I don’t have anything for you on that.”
Li Zhou
I was wondering if Trump’s second indictment has affected your support of him in any way?
John Kennedy
I don’t have anything for you on that.
Some Republicans just want to move on from Trump
Sen. Todd Young (R-IN): “It’s quite clear to me that Donald Trump has zero chance of becoming president of the United States now.”
Li Zhou
Do you think what Trump did was wrong?
Todd Young
I think that’s incontrovertible. Of course, everything needs to be proven in court. But what you saw in the public charges was far more specific than you typically see in these documents. They tied each of the different counts to a particular document. That level of specificity is pretty damning for the president of the United States. As a former practicing attorney, I’d much rather be the prosecution than I would the defense.
Li Zhou
Do you see this adding to some of the electability concerns?
Todd Young
Absolutely. I mean, it was already way past time for Republicans to move past the Donald Trump era. And it’s quite clear to me that Donald Trump has zero chance of becoming president of the United States now. So this is a self-indulgent and self-flagellating exercise, to even consider nominating Donald Trump for the presidency once again.
Sen. Mike Rounds (R-SD), who has endorsed Sen. Tim Scott for president: “My focus is on getting Tim [Scott] elected. I’m gonna do whatever I can to help him.”
Li Zhou
If Trump gets the nomination, would you back him?
Mike Rounds
We’re hoping that Tim Scott gets the nomination. And we’re gonna support Tim Scott. We think Tim is the right guy for the job. He’s bringing as close to a Ronald Reagan back to us as we could possibly get. He’s got integrity. He’s working to bring the country together. He’s the right guy for the job. My focus is on getting Tim elected. I’m gonna do whatever I can to help him.
Li Zhou
Do you think Trump’s handling of the documents was wrong?
Mike Rounds
What I think is that anybody, regardless of if it was President Biden, Vice President Pence, or former Secretary of State Clinton, all of them should have done a better job, should have done a better job on protecting those documents. None of them should have had them in their private residence. And all of them should have been returned back to the government at the appropriate time, from their offices, to begin with. So in every single case, and that includes the one that you’re talking about, there was a better way to do it. It was not done correctly.