Trump fans resort to 'table-pounding' when law thwarts them: Ex-Arizona GOP official

Supporters of former President Donald Trump ignore the law, the facts, and the Constitution, and resort to "table-pounding" to try to get what they want, argued former Arizona Republican House Speaker Rusty Bowers on MSNBC Thursday — even within the halls of government. Bowers was a key witness in the House January 6 Committee hearings last year, where he explained how Rudy Giuliani tried to pressure him to overturn President Joe Biden's victory in Arizona, and he refused to do so.

This comes as former Vice President Mike Pence, who similarly refused to participate in an illegal plan to throw out presidential electors on January 6, explained his actions to Republican voters in Iowa as he challenges former President Donald Trump for the 2024 nomination.

"I remember in your testimony in, the difficulty of having of just trying to explain to people who have been so misled and so turned around, the basic fact that you, Rusty Bowers ... can't unilaterally decide to just reject the will of the voters, and how difficult it was for you to make that argument," said anchor Chris Hayes. "I wonder what you thought, watching Mike Pence trying to do a version of what you've had to do."

Bowers replied:

"It felt like I had been there before and the vice president has been very kind," said Bowers. "It's always amazing to me that conservatives will talk about how the feds exceed their authority, they are not authorized by the Constitution, they only should do what they are allowed to do — until your side is perhaps not the beneficiary, and then you want to change the Constitution to fit your argument. And that doesn't work ... Richard Nixon in 1960, he was was faced with the same challenge, and Mr. Nixon counted for John F. Kennedy and knew that that would cost in the election."

"Do you think — one thing, one theme we keep returning to in our coverage of this very strange era, is just the bedrock importance in a democratic society of persuasion, of being to say to people, look, these are the facts and this is why we're right on the law and this is why this is important," said Hayes. "And I wonder how live that possibility feels to you, as someone who had people saying the most awful things about you outside your house and was sort of subject of so much calumny and insult, how possible that is amongst Republican base voters on these matters?"

"Well, I think people do it because they think there is something — to hope and faith, just the hope of the sun coming up tomorrow. But you know, there is a definite paucity in our society of civility or just the opportunity to think, can I think this through without accelerating it into rhetoric and attacks and incivility? Because what's that old lawyer thing, you know, if you've got the facts on your side, you pound the facts. If you've got the law on your side, you pound the law. If you've got neither one, you pound the table. And we see a lot of table-pounding."

"I've got to admire Pence," Bowers added. "It may be a challenging time for him, but to go out there and see it over and over, maybe somebody, maybe their brain will click, you know? I really should love the Constitution rather than what it gets for me."

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