Zach Braff (‘Shrinking’ director): ‘I learned so much’ from directing episodes of ‘Scrubs’ [Complete Interview Transcript]
During a recent Gold Derby video interview, digital director Christopher Rosen spoke in-depth with Zach Braff (“Shrinking”) about directing the Apple TV Plus comedy, which is eligible at the 2023 Emmys. Watch the full video above and read the complete interview transcript below.
Braff directed the eighth episode of Season 1, titled “Boop,” where he connected with the show’s various cast members including Jason Segel, Jessica Williams, Christa Miller, Luke Tennie, Lukita Maxwell, Michael Urie and Harrison Ford. The director previously worked with the show’s creator, Bill Lawrence, on their cult network comedy “Scrubs.”
“I learned so much directing ‘Scrubs,'” Braff readily admitted in our webchat. “I saw it like grad school. I learned from these men and women so much, how to execute single camera comedy, not only well, but in an insanely short amount of time.” In all, he directed seven episodes of that medical sitcom, and has since gone on to helm installments of “Ted Lasso,” “Solos” and now “Shrinking.”
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Christopher Rosen: Welcome back to Gold Derby, I’m Christopher Rosen. I’m so pleased to be joined by Zach Braff, a two-time Emmy Award nominee who directed the eighth episode of the Apple TV+ comedy series Shrinking. Zach, I love the show. Obviously, you have a very long relationship with Bill Lawrence. How does that work in this case? Does he say, “Oh, would you like to direct an episode here?” How did you get involved, I guess?
Zach Braff: Well, we’re best friends and we obviously, I think it goes without saying, have the same sense of humor. I learned so much directing Scrubs, really from a lot of my fellow DGA members, some of the great single-cam comedy directors of our time. They all, a giant chunk of them, worked on Scrubs. I saw it like grad school. I learned from these men and women so much, how to execute single camera comedy, not only well, but in an insanely short amount of time. In the Scrubs days, we had five days to shoot an episode, so it was about how to be innovative with the camera and how to tell a story and get great performances, but man, you really had to go fast. That was just grad school for me. I learned so much from them. And then, I took that knowledge and directed, I think, seven or eight episodes of Scrubs, ultimately, and then went on to make films. And then, Bill and I re-teamed again for Ted Lasso when I directed the second episode of Ted Lasso, Biscuits. It was just so wonderful to get back together and find that we just had that groove again. I know what he likes. First of all, I learned so much underneath him, so I know exactly what he’s looking for. I know that he’s going to want that line exchange in a two-shot because he thinks it’ll play funnier in a two-shot. I know that when he feels like, you know what? We should push in here, but eh, if we do it on this line, it’s a little too much, it’s a little too heavy-handed. I really think that we just have a shorthand, and we have so many years of things we can reference. And then, I think when I got nominated for that Ted Lasso episode and it was such a beloved episode, he just wanted to keep it going, so he invited me to join the party over at Shrinking. He always gives me really interesting episodes. I didn’t know that eight would be such a special episode for people, to be honest, because … I understood that Biscuits was because it was the second episode. It was the first one in Lasso that introduced the heart of the show. But with Boop, it was number eight, and I really loved the script. I thought it was so fun, and different. It does stand out amongst the episodes because it breaks out of the normal world of the world of Shrinking. The guys go on a quest to find Alice. And the women and Luke, Sean, go to the art gallery. And of course, the concept of “boop” is introduced into the show, which plays very importantly, without spoilers, for the end of the series. I don’t know, it was just thrilling. Bill and I just really, really have a wonderful shorthand and I can’t wait to direct more when we’re allowed to for season two.
CR: Yeah. Everything you said is dead on. I love this episode too. I think the other thing I really liked about it is, all the characters have … It’s just great. Everyone of the characters feels like they have a great moment and all the actors get to do, really, a bunch of stuff, and they’re all super funny. And there’s also, obviously, great emotional connection, I think, certainly with Jimmy and Paul and all these different things. I guess, when you’re coming in for the eighth episode and the cast has already been doing this, I’d imagine, how do you approach working with the actors? And obviously, you’re an actor yourself, so I’m sure you know how to do that anyway. And like you said, you’ve done a ton of features as well, you’re a very acclaimed director. But I guess coming in when they’ve already established, maybe, a rapport or whatever, how do you approach the actors and their performances?
ZB: It’s always tricky. It’s the weirdest thing. And I remember this from when I was an actor, is that a director coming in is like, “Hey, nice to meet you guys. I’m going to be the boss for the week.” It’s just such a weird dynamic that only happens in serial television. I think particularly for Harrison, it was totally new because he had never worked like this, in serial television. He always has his director and you establish a relationship. I think for him, it was … Of course, for me, that was the most daunting, getting to direct this living legend. But I think, for him too, he was getting used to this idea that every week, there’s this new face. I had to quickly gain his trust. All the other actors, I think, are used to the concept of that; they’d lived through that, and they were very warm to me and very welcoming, and I think they knew that I had this special bond with Bill and that I wouldn’t let Bill and the company down. I know what he wants. And then, I just had to get over my intimidation of Harrison. But I’ve had that before. I’ve directed Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine and lots of legends, so I just put on my pep talk in the mirror. “Come on, you can do this.” My experience with some of these great legends is, no matter who you are as an actor, you want to be directed. You want a leader. You want someone who has a vision for what’s going to happen. You don’t want someone bumbling. I just did that, and then Harrison and I got along instantly, really, really well. That was that. It was just such a fun place. Bill creates such fun sets where there’s room to play. He gives his directors a chance to put their own stamp on it. Obviously, you stay within the lexicon of the show, but he gave me lots of room to put my own stamp on it.
CR: Was there something specifically you can think of that was your own stamp, you would say? Or that you were like, “Oh, this is great that I’m able to do this?”
ZB: Well, one thing that’s unique that I really love is that we have years and years of me pitching jokes alongside him. A lot of times, a director will come in and you’re just executing the show. But with Bill and Neil Goldman, who’s the showrunner, who was a big Scrubs writer, they are very open to me adding jokes and pitching jokes. I was there the week in prep, and I just hung out a lot in the writer’s room. That’s a fun, unique thing for me, is I know how to write for Christa Miller, for example. Or I have a great joke idea for this or that, and they’re very receptive to that. I think, probably more than other directors who aren’t also comedy writers, they let me go, “Oh, what about this as an alt? What about that as an alt?” That was super fun. The laser pointer, for example, is something that Neil Goldman and I riffed on together and came up with. Neil was like, “Bill’s never going to go for this. Why the hell does she have a laser pointer on her key chain?” And I’m like, “All right, let’s back into it. We have to convince Bill that it’s hilarious.” And I go, “Rocks!” She loves rocks. She uses the laser pointer to point out rocks to her husband. And Neil does, “Bill might go for that. Let’s try it.”
CR: That’s awesome. I love the Liz and Gabby, Christa Miller and Jessica Williams, relationship. I think it’s so funny. And that, in this episode, is really great. And adding Luke into that, and Sean, is great as well. I love that. Because that’s another … Like you were saying, a lot of the stuff that happens in this episode is so important to nine and 10, and that vibe that we’re getting in this episode really carries through the rest of the season, and I would imagine, season two whenever we’re fortunate enough to get to see that as viewers, and certainly, you get to work on it. But I guess, was that fun doing those scenes in the art gallery and stuff? And they’re just so good together.
ZB: Oh yeah. Another fun assignment is, there’s not a ton of swing sets … for those that don’t know the term, new sets that aren’t regular to the show … in season one of Shrinking. There really isn’t a ton. But we had to build this whole, huge art gallery. That was a really fun assignment to create that with Cabot McMullen, who’s just a … These sets. I have to give a shout-out out to Cabot, because every location in the show is a set. All of their houses, all of that, the backyard, it’s all … Sometimes, they have to go to a relocation, obviously, for some of the house stuff. But these sets are just the prettiest home sets I’ve ever been on. They’re a pleasure to shoot. And obviously, the office is all a beautiful, beautiful set. The art gallery, we obviously had to create. And Cabot just did a wonderful job. He found an incredible artist who, those are all his paintings and we blew them up huge. And we had to do some specifics, obviously, with Jessica’s birthmark. But that space was just really fun. I had to bang out a lot of scenes in there in a short amount of time. It was just really fun. We added those neon strips to the columns which had a really, really nice look to it. But yeah, as you were saying, a lot of things culminate in this episode. Not only to you get the introduction of the concept of “boop,” but you get the beginnings of the friendship with Jessica and Christa. You get the concept that Sean is going to get that Sean is going to get into catering. You get Jimmy finally standing up to Alice and disciplining her, which has been a long time coming. And that beautiful moment at the end when he looks to the heavens to almost pray to his wife for strength, which is just so moving. Jason does such a fabulous job there. There’s so much humor. The stuff with the peacock and the car ride. Oh my gosh, the gazebo. That was a tough shoot because we shot all night at Descanso Gardens. We just had so much fun. Peacocks aren’t up at night, so they had written this thing that not only is the peacock … That they stumble across a peacock, but that it does its thing with the feathers, which isn’t a thing a peacock does on cue, nor can you train it to do. And also, peacocks are not up at night, so we had to deal with all of that mishegoss. But it was so fun. And the funniest scene to me of all, one of the funniest scenes of the whole season, is them apologizing to Alice for sleeping together. I watched that scene and I laughed so hard at it.
CR: It’s so funny. I was re-watching it, obviously, before we’re doing this, and that just is the funny … Their chemistry is great anyway, Jason and Jessica are so funny, but that is just … The cascading of it and the timing of it is just so great. Like you said, you’re probably just sitting there laughing as well, watching them do it, but how much time … Did they rehearse that? Or how did you go into that sequence?
ZB: That was the very first scene I directed, so that was first day nerves. Because like you said about, what’s it like to come in and direct a cast that’s already a well-oiled machine? That was my very first scene, so I was a bit nervous. I knew Jason just a little bit as an acquaintance. I didn’t know Jessica, I didn’t know Lukita. But I had a solid plan for the blocking. I had a couple extra jokes in my head that I was going to pitch. We were just belly laughing. It was the best thing to start on, because I just remember swiping tears from laughing. When he says, “There was some standing,” I was just crying from laughter. I don’t know, it was just the greatest way to start off the six-day shoot, with that scene.
CR: It’s so great.
ZB: And then, I got to meet Harrison, and Harrison pulls up in a golf cart. He goes, “Come on, let’s go. I want to go talk to you on my house set and just talk through this first scene.” I’m like, “Okay, great, great, great.” And I’m so nervous because I’m getting in the golf cart and going with him alone to this giant empty sound stage. I’m like, all right, this is the greatest life experience ever, but I’m nervous. He’s driving on the golf cart through the Warner Brothers lot, and these trams, they have the tourist trams on the Warner Brothers lot that are driving by. I’m trying to think of some small talk because I’m so nervous, and I noticed that he’d just adjust his head a little bit as it goes by, and I say, “The trams, do you ever wave?” And he goes, “No, I always look away.” And there was a long pause, and he goes, “But I do feel bad about it.”
CR: That’s amazing.
ZB: That was my introduction to Harrison. And then we became … I love planes and I love flying, and I have my pilot’s license, and we became fast friends talking about aviation.
CR: Oh, that’s awesome. You do a great Harrison Ford impression, I have to say. You got him down, I think, the gruffness.
ZB: Yeah, I can pull off Harrison. He’s very gruff.
CR: I want to actually mention the last scene with Jimmy and Alice, that is just a great moment too. I love when she’s like, “I fucking hate you.” And then he’s like, “I fucking love you.” And the line reading is so perfect for Jason. I just think that whole sequence is really wonderful, and like you said, really nails the emotion of it. Can you, a little more … I just thought that sequence was great. Like you said, Jason is so good in that scene as well. I think his acting is so great.
ZB: Wonderful.
CR: Yeah.
ZB: It has the buildup of Paul giving him a much needed pep talk in the kitchen. That, I thought, was very moving. I thought Harrison was wonderful there and it was a very moving moment, him really showing up as a parental figure for Jimmy. And then, when Jimmy comes back from dropping Paul off, he’s about to let her slide. She’s just lounging on the couch. Bill, who has teenagers, I remember him giving a very specific direction to Lukita like, “You’re lying back on the couch. You’re on your phone. You don’t think anything’s going to happen. You’re being cocky.” I just thought Jason was wonderful there. He took what Paul said to heart, and he had to summon the courage to be like, “No. No more. I’m putting my foot down.” I thought Lukita was great there. I don’t know. We did a couple of different versions of Jason’s last moment, but Jason looking up to the heavens was just so moving to me, and that’s the one I put in.
CR: Yeah, and I love too, like we were talking about, the show in general. It’s got all this great emotional stuff, and it’s super funny. Even within that scene, him not knowing Japanese Breakfast is a band, I just think it’s so fucking funny.
ZB: Yeah. That’s the magic of Bill. That’s the magic of Bill’s work. If you look at Lasso and Shrinking and Cougar Town and Scrubs, obviously, he can have you cracking up and then have a tear in your eye in a quarter of a page. That’s something Bill is just so fantastic at. On Scrubs, obviously, it was the most extreme because we would go from something so broad, a fantasy that was just insane, to dealing with a patient who’s about to lose their life. But here, in a more realistic world, he can do that with Jason saying a joke about the band Japanese Breakfast, right into breaking your heart. It’s a testament to the actors and the writing and it’s so fun to direct, because you know if you got the talent and you’ve got the set, and you’ve got the beautiful lighting, and you’ve got the writing, it’s all there, it’s the director’s job to just get it and not fuck it up.
CR: We have to wrap up, but you mentioned earlier when we started about how, when you were on Scrubs, it’s like the graduate school for being a single camera comedy director and stuff. I guess now, you’re obviously great at this, I think. I’ll say that, you don’t have to say it, but I think you’re really good at it. What have you learned, and are you still learning even now, when you’re doing Boop here, like that?
ZB: Absolutely. I’m still learning. I learned so much, like I said, from the directors who directed Scrubs. But I’m always learning. I’m always learning how to use restraint sometimes, to just let it sit. The moment doesn’t need a cool camera move. That’s hard for me. I love moving the camera, I love cameras, I love camera toys. For me, sometimes it’s like, this moment is so perfect. Don’t move the camera, just let it sit. Finding moments to be restrained. It’s always challenging to really find the exact tone of the show, do your own thing, but operate within the world of the show. With Scrubs, the camera could do insane things because the camera was one of the leads of the show on Scrubs. With a show like Lasso or Shrinking, the camera is more restrained, so when you do move, it says so much more. When you do a unique angle that’s a little outside of the box on the show, it says so much more. That’s where I continue to learn, how to tell the story within the world of the show, but also put my unique take on it.
CR: Yeah. Great stuff. Big fan. And Zach Braff here, a two-time Emmy Award nominee, directed the eighth episode of Shrinking. You can watch all the episodes on Apple TV+. Zach, thank you so much.
ZB: Thank you, Chris, so much.
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