News 4 sits down with new state superintendent for in-depth discussion on issues affecting Oklahoma education
OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — News 4 sat down with State Superintendent Lindel Fields Monday for an in-depth, 30-minute-long conversation touching on topics from how he feels about certain policies his predecessor Ryan Walters implemented, to improving the teacher morale crisis, to his plan for getting Oklahoma out of the bottom of the national education rankings.
Below you can read the transcript from News 4’s entire interview:
News 4:
“How did you how did you end up here? How did this all come to be? When did that all start?”
Fields:
“Well, as you as you know, I was an educator for 30 years. And then since retiring four years ago, I've been doing some consulting and different organizations, primarily schools. And over the about the last year or so. So I started feeling like maybe I need to do something different in the last few months in like, oh, this kind of the spirit of Oklahoma's education system, I thought, well, let me let me just do something about it. So I thought about becoming a superintendent again, but it just didn't feel right. So I just sort of put it out there that I was ready to do something, something different. And about a month ago, this all went down. So it just happened unexpectedly, of course, and never dreamed I would be the state superintendent."
News 4:
“Did the governor just call you up or, I guess, did you already know the governor? How did how did that all happen?”
Fields:
“That's a great question. So I knew the governor from my time at [Tri-County Tech]. So he came to Tri County a couple of times when we won the presidential Malcolm Baldrige award that caught his interest. So he came up our way a couple of times. And outside of that, it was just seeing him around like, like everybody else. And it's my understanding that he was looking for someone who didn't have, I want to say, skin in the game. I have skin in the game now. But being retired and not planning to run long term, somebody that could focus on the matters at hand. So I'm sure I'm one of many people, many people he thought of. So I met with him and next day he called me and offered me the opportunity and here I am now.”
News 4:
“I think. I think you've already answered this. Is it true that you got no intentions of of running for this office after this term is over?”
Fields:
“That's true. I have no plans whatsoever. I signed up, family signed up, for what's now 14 months. So initially 15 months. So it's our plan to just focus on the State Department of Education. No running.”
News 4:
“Why is that? You could use this as a stepping stone to put your name out there and become a big office holder. But why not?”
Fields:
“I believe that there's just too much work to be done to be spending 15 months—you know, folks start putting their hat in the ring year or two years out. And that's a full time job, I believe, in and of itself running for office. I haven't ever run for office, but it seems like it would take a lot of time and energy and I need to spend my time and energy here. Plus that's what I agreed to. And that's what my family agreed to.”
News 4:
“Obviously, your predecessor—a lot of people have a lot of opinions about him. He has a lot of opinions about a lot of things, and he made them known. You strike me as someone who—I don't know what political party you're a part of. I don't know if you if you even advertise that. I Would you describe yourself as a political guy in the terms of this office?
Fields:
“Well, you're in the middle of it. You don't see me—I think you see me as apolitical. Right. And I think that's exactly how I need to be. Right now, it's just too important to the state. So, no, I don't think I am a political guy.
News 4:
“Why is that important? I mean, you no matter which political party it is, both of them, I'm sure, have things that they would love to see you doing that maybe their party wants. But why is it important that it's not really about answering to a party in this?”
Fields:
“This position—and I'm just speaking for myself—is leading thousands of educators, hundreds of schools, thousands of—tens of thousands of students. I don't think the students really care about that. So at this particular moment in time, I think it's just important. So I haven't really thought much about it. I'm just doing what I believe is right by students in education in Oklahoma.”
News 4:
“And speaking to the students and the teachers—you’ve been in here going on the fourth week now. Have you had time to sit down with the teachers? And talking about teacher morale here in Oklahoma, have you been able to assess where are we in terms of that? What do we need to do to get where we need to be?”
Fields:
“I haven't had the opportunity to sit down and sit with a group of teachers yet. I've received tons of emails from individuals who said that they're going back into teaching or they have a teaching degree and have decided to go into teaching. And I've run into a handful just out in public that I've gotten to visit with. So in terms of assessing the morale across the state, it would just be my opinion, right? I feel like we're making some progress to bring to fruition what I believe to be the most noble of all professions, teaching, and making it something we can all be proud of.
News 4:
“We talk about teacher pay. And I'm sure the answer is—‘we’d love to pay teachers as much as we could if we had the money.’ But realistically, what do you see—are there steps that can be taken, or that you can use this office to advocate for, to get teachers more pay, or to get them the things that they're looking for to want to stay teaching in Oklahoma?”
Fields:
“That's a great question. Of course, we’d like to pay teachers more. We'd like to do a lot of things. I think we bring respect. When you don't feel respected, you want to earn more, right? I don't believe teachers leave schools, they sometimes leave toxic cultures or a toxic feeling. So I think if we bring back that respect, that will do a lot. It's certainly not going to replace pay and benefits. But I think teachers would tell you that's not everything either. So in terms of—can we do something about teacher pay this [legislative] session? I don't know. But I do believe that that's an important part of the conversation.
News 4:
“I again preface this with—I know you've only been in a few weeks, so I'm sure there are lots of things that you're still working to figure out in terms of initiatives of the previous administration, or things they were doing. But are there things that you have discovered so far, that—in terms of either initiatives of the previous administration or programs they started—that you've either said ‘yes, I want to continue those,’ or ‘no, we need to stop those?’”
Fields:
“Well, I think you've noticed already. I'm moving this forward. And clearly there are some things that we've made adjustments to that needed to be done and so those are the big things that have happened. In terms of other programs that are in place or were in place, I don't have anything that comes to mind off the top of the top of my head. So the big things we've started to address and beyond that, it's moving forward.”
News 4:
“Things like, I think probably the biggest one was that the Bible, the Bible policy, what have you ended up deciding on that?”
Fields:
“Well, it's really simple. There was a Supreme Court stay on the policies that were trying to be implemented and there was a lawsuit. So we've asked for that lawsuit to be to be dismissed. If we haven't, we are planning to do that. So that decision just stops any effort to mandate Bibles in schools. Bibles have long been a part of the education system in in Oklahoma. So we didn't change anything that was in place. We just stopped the mandate, the requirement.”
News 4:
“The previous administration told us they had partnerships with groups like PragerU. Have you been able to find were there actually partnerships with these groups or were there any official contracts with these groups?
Fields:
“And the word partnership—I think we can say there were partnerships. Were the official contracts for those partnerships? No. I'm specific to PragerU. It's also important to clarify, no money—no State Department or Oklahoma taxpayer money—was used with PragerU. So whatever that partnership was, I don't know. But there wasn't a contract for that.
News 4:
“Are there things that you have found that—either money was going toward, or was earmarked toward—that you would like to either stop, or stop it before [money] starts go into it?”
Fields:
“I think it's probably better answered, clarifying what money has been spent. For example, there wasn't a $3 million spent on Bibles and there wasn't money spent with PragerU. So the processes and policies that the state has for encumbrance, I think they've done a good job of following those. So I don't think there's anything out there that we need to stop that I've found yet. So that's where we are with that.”
News 4:
“I know there have been some former staff members who left under the previous state superintendent, who—when they left, and even while they worked here—received some pretty large bonus payments and final paychecks. Is there anything you can do retroactively on those things to get that money back, if it's appropriate? Or, going forward, can we expect those kinds of things to continue on a staff departure?”
Fields:
“So I can understand how that can be frustrating to read those things. I don't think there's anything we can do to claw those things back. So, as frustrating as it may be, we just have to move forward. I don't I don't anticipate there'll be any surprises moving forward with folks that we bring on.”
News 4:
“In terms of staff, I notice since you started here earlier this month, there have been a few departures here. For instance, with the chief of staff, you Brought [Tom Newell] in. What has led you to make some of those decisions? I'll start with, I guess, the chief of staff. How did that come to be and why did you feel like there needed to be a change there?”
Fields:
“Well, this is a big job. It's a really big job. So the folks that we asked to bring on as part of what's been referred to as the transition or turnaround team are folks that I felt like I could trust to help me move things forward, and that's what we did. We just brought people in. In order to do that, we had to have some other people leave.”
News 4:
“Again, I know it's been three weeks, but is there anything that you have discovered or unearthed that raises serious red flags for you? I know there's going to be an audit of previous administration’s tenure. Anything that raises red flags that you think either the legislature or auditor need to look into?”
Fields:
“That's a that's a fair question. Outside of the things that we've talked about, you know, the hot topics, I have not unearthed anything as of yet. And so I am committed to our legislative leaders, the governor, if something like that does arise, we'll certainly let everybody know. But to date, what I would consider to be a red flag, there's nothing yet to report. And the audit—I'm not even sure when that will start—but I will certainly cooperate with them.”
News 4:
“If you have a question for the previous administration about something, is that something that they will answer for?”
Fields:
“We've addressed some of the major things in our first two board meetings. We had special board meeting, a regular board meeting. So those things are certainly have been addressed in terms of previous things. I think the staff that we have here have been very helpful in answering any questions or concerns, concerns we might have. So I think all the information we need is right here, at least so far.”
News 4:
“We talked about a lot about what's happened with the previous administration. There's got to be a balance of—there are important things to focus on from the past versus, we’ve got to just move forward. How do you determine, what's the right balance to strike there?”
Fields:
“I think I think it's an important balance of, you know, moving forward. And to use the ship metaphor again, that we want to move the ship forward, but we have to patch a few holes. And I think we have some of those big holes patched from our board action. So I think we're just striking the right balance of taking care of what we need and trying to move forward at the same time. So I see your point, and I—at least so far—I think we have a have a good balance. I'm hoping whatever holes are there are getting smaller and smaller.
News 4:
“I don't know if this was even you were even announced as the state superintendent yet, but I know this made a lot of educators happy to see [Oklahoma Educators Hall of Fame wall] out there. All those pictures returned to the wall. Why return those to the wall—or why keep them up?”
Fields:
“Well, I think it's important to honor the past. It wasn't my decision to put those pictures back up. It did happen before me. But it's a decision I support. So these people gave, in many cases, their entire careers and lives to education, were honored. So I think having them in that hall to honor them their legacies is important. So imagine they're going to stay for a while.”
News 4:
“What is your favorite part of what you do? I'm sure this job comes with plenty of stress. Are there rewarding parts to it?”
Fields:
“Well, I love working with people and putting strategies into place and executing. So getting to know the people and figuring out the plan forward—I really I really enjoy that. Some of it's not visible, right? You don't get to see you know, not all of our decisions are at the board level. So just trying to elevate that, that morale and bringing out the best, the best in people when I'm driving home and I'm like, okay, I can feel good about that.”
News 4:
What are so what's your message to parents, or people—taxpayers even—who maybe they weren't happy with the way things are going here these past couple of years? What's your message to them about a what you have accomplished here in your first few weeks and what your goals are for the next year and a half to regain that trust?
Fields:
“Well, you know, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. And people also have short memories of what happened. We have to address all those things. But as I mentioned, moving forward what they can expect to see is an appreciation for the people who are entrusted with our children, our future. So you're going to see respect for that and appreciation for that. And I would ask parents to meet us halfway on that, as we would with any professional or CPAs or attorneys or a doctor's respect. At least I can speak for the teachers of my child, that I wholeheartedly believe that they're working in the best interest of my child. Now, have I had concerns with those teachers from time to time? Yeah. When I do, I call them or I email them. What I don't do is put on social media, right? So I think it's going to take all of us. It'll take time, of course. So just hang with us for a little bit.”
News 4:
“There were several teachers whose teaching certifications, or licenses, were revoked under the previous administration. In some cases, people felt like it was retaliation for politics. Would there be any consideration to review some of these certifications that were revoked and possibly reinstate them?”
Fields:
“So we have addressed, I believe, all of those that that were pending in the board took, those very seriously. Are you talking about situations before that?”
News 4:
“Yeah. So one that comes to mind is Summer Boismier. Did she get addressed? She was the one who posted a QR code to a library in her classroom in Norman, and then her certificate was revoked and I believe there was a lawsuit. I don't know if that changes things. I don't know if that's something you can comment on or if you're familiar with that situation. But that was one that comes to mind.”
Fields:
“I don't know much about that one.”
News 4:
“But that's something that you have, in cases, addressed already?”
Fields:
“Yes.”
News 4:
“And would that be something that—if others come forward who would like that to be reconsidered—would that be something that you'd be open to looking into?”
Fields:
“I'm not sure what the process is for that. So we'd have to look at look at that process. I certainly would have an open mind to that, but need to recognize there may be something that would prevent us from doing so. We'd have to look at those individuals, I suspect.”
News 4:
“Walk me through your background in education. I know for a long time you were you were in the vo-tech. Walk me through your tenure?”
Fields:
“Since you mentioned vo-tech, I did go to vo-tech while in high school, something my father made me do actually as a welder. And he said, ‘son, you're going to go to tech and get a skill.’ It's something, a skill that nobody could ever take away from me. So I went to Tulsa Tech, got a certificate in horticulture, which I used to work after high school, and that helped fund my way through college. I did every college class at night as a nontraditional student there in Tulsa, and then began teaching. You know by now that I started teaching inmates in a medium security prison, horticulture. And so that's how I got my start, because those programs are aligned with career tech. I became a director and then made my way to Tri-County, where I was an assistant superintendent and deputy. And then the last 12 years I was superintendent of the school. But the state superintendent of public Instruction serves as the chair of the Career Tech Board. So the two are very aligned. They’re public schools, you know. Have the same rules, regulations and accreditations are similar. So they're very similar. So that's the system I grew up in and retired from.”
News 4:
“In terms of education and education options, Oklahoma has pretty robust career tech system… Is it important for more collaboration on those fronts or offer these programs to students as an alternative to college?”
Fields:
“So again, point of clarification, career techs are public schools. Oftentimes it's confused that they're not. So in Oklahoma, we have three branches of education. You have common education, K-12, career tech education, and you have higher education. So I'm adamant when I say: it's not college or career tech. And when someone says some kids aren't meant for college, or college isn't for everyone, I just I dispute that. What we're learning is that someone graduating from high school and going on to college for four years is not the path for everyone. There's other ways to go about it. And here's why that's important to Oklahoma. For the economic vitality of Oklahoma. We need more students in career tech and more in college. Every year between 12 and 14,000 students graduate from high school. And by the way, Oklahoma does a really good job of graduating students from high school. But after that, 12 to 14000, sort of don't do anything. And they kind of flounder for a bit. It's my hope that we can get more of those students in college and career tech. So, we need more electricians and plumbers and AC and all of all of the skills. But we also need more engineers and doctors in rural areas. So we need both. So it's not it's not either or. I think they're both very important to the state.”
News 4:
“Another facet of the changing education landscape we've seen for the past couple of decades is this idea of school choice. I know the state has the Parental Choice Tax Credit. I believe the previous administration here [at OSDE] started its Office of School Choice. I don't know where you fall on things like that. How do you feel about the idea of—whether it's the Parental Choice Tax Credit—is that is that a way to make education more robust? Or do you have issues with it? How do you feel about that idea?”
Fields:
“When I was in high school, you went to the school, the district you lived in. It was geographic boundaries. Getting a transfer was nearly impossible. Then transfers came about, and then we started to see charter schools and virtual schools. So we are a choice state. So there's lots of options, options out there. The tax credit you mentioned does provide options for students who may choose to do that, or need that. And so that's available. And I would love for us to help educate the public about what is available to them. It's my hope that the school in a student's backyard is their best choice, but we want to make sure we're providing the right choice for the right student to help them be successful. So there are options available and that the tax credit can help provide those options for young people.”
News 4:
“Epic [Charter Schools] has been in the headlines past few years with the way some of their leadership ran things. Are there any more guardrails that you would like to see in place to prevent things like what happened at Epic from happening elsewhere? Is that something that you can even control in this office?”
Fields:
“Well, I don't know that I can control choices. People make leadership decisions that that folks made. I think we need to be very deliberate in approving charters—or any kind of kind of choice. So just being deliberate about those things to ensure that we're providing, you know, the best educational experience for the students is what I would say about that.”
News 4:
“A big thing that people harp on is—Oklahoma's 50th in education. I know that's subjective… Does that number, 50th, does that weigh over your head?”
Fields:
“I think it weighs on all of us, right? If you live in Oklahoma and, whether it's 50 or 46 or even if it was 30th, I personally wouldn't be satisfied. So I think it's incumbent upon us to put things in place that that will move those numbers. And as I've said, I I'm not under any kind of illusion that's going to happen in 15 months. There's actually only one testing cycle between now and my departure. So what can be done in 15 months? It's really setting the stage for the next person. So yeah, it weighs on me and I hope it weighs on everybody. We've got to do some things differently to move that needle for sure.”
News 4:
“Why devote your career and your life to public education? Why? Why is public education something that's important to you?”
Fields:
“When I first started teaching it, it was just because I answered an ad in the paper. I had never planned to be a teacher out of high school. And I was six months into it. I knew without a doubt this is what I was going to do, this is what I was going to do. And in all of the roles, I've just loved it, enjoyed it. And I think this particular point in my life is just setting the stage and trying to be a positive force for public education, is why I'm here right now. So I don't I don't know why it happened the way it did, but I'm glad it did.”
News 4:
“It may seem like an obvious question, but why is it important that we have public schools, that we have a strong public education system?”
Fields:
“So most of our kids go to public schools. The state's economic vitality is dependent upon public schools. Businesses look at public schools when they want to locate here, when people want to live here. Plus, if most of the kids are going there, shouldn't it be a great experience with high expectations? So, yeah, I think I think it is an obvious answer to the question because our kids deserve it.”
News 4:
“What would you like to see this coming legislative session in terms of appropriations? Is there funding that you'd like to see? Are there different programs you'd like to see, different bills you'd like to see passed to either help you in your job here or to help public schools as a whole?”
Fields:
“You know, I haven't gotten that far in terms of like a legislative priority. I know there's a lot of opinions about education. The one thing we've seen and heard a lot of is the Mississippi Marathon or miracle, about reading. What I would like to see is a group of people come around this idea of getting back to the basics. And the thought process is, get the basics right, everything else will be an easier lift. Don't get those right, and the likelihood of success for all these other things diminishes. So I'd like to see us all rally around the basics, if you will, And whatever funding or programs that takes would focus around that.”
News 4:
“What if I were a teacher sitting here right now? Maybe one of these teachers who, these past couple years, thought about leaving Oklahoma, or maybe even a teacher who did leave Oklahoma. What would you say right now?”
Fields:
“I would say that you matter. And that you have the opportunity to change kids’ lives. I know it's been hard. Teaching is hard. We know that. But you matter and you can change a lot of kids’ lives. So I would encourage them to stay the course. If they left, you know, consider coming back. If you if you retired and feel like you’ve got a little more energy, come back and help us help us educate our future.
News 4:
“Would you say is your door open, if a teacher has concerns or questions for you or if anybody does, what what's your what's your policy on it?”
Fields:
“That's a fair question. And I've received dozens or hundreds of emails at this point. And the emails are important to those people. Whether it's about their fifth-grade reader or their fifth-grade daughter catching the bus. So many things certainly are our door’s open, but so are the doors at the schools where your children go. Start with your teacher and do so in a respectful manner. Certainly I'll be available. And what I think you can see in terms of teachers and educators is that—we'll start to have our road trips and maybe even a forum, a teacher only forum. I'm thinking about where folks can come together. But I think in general the door is open.”
News 4:
“In terms of transparency, I've noticed some changes from the previous administration. For instance, [the board meeting room], there used to be barriers right here. Open records requests? I've been receiving them now. Interviews? The state superintendent is giving them—to everyone. Why make those changes?”
Fields:
“I want to say to you, isn't it obvious? I mean, we work for the people, right? So sharing and sharing the information, we've got nothing to hide. We've got nothing to hide. So let's have let's have conversations and talk about what's important. But I think we have we don't have anything to hide. And there's rules in place for open records requests. So be patient with us. We are getting a lot of them. And I'd like to get those down too. You know, that's one of my goals. By the time we're at 15 months, maybe they'll be in single digits.”
News 4:
“Is there anything we haven't touched on or haven't covered or any messages you would like to share?”
Fields:
“I'll just I'll just I'll just end with—I believe being in education is the most noble of all of professions, so we need to work together. My call to action would be—if you can't say it to your neighbor’s sixth grader, don't say it on social media. Take your grievances and your challenges to the school district and handle things that way.”