TUSK: 'This could in fact be the start of the process of destruction of not only the EU but also of the Western political civilization'

Germany's leading newspaper, BILD, has published an interview with European Council President Donald Tusk ahead of a critical vote on leaving the European Union.

The full interview is below.

BILD: Mr. President, in a few days' time, Great Britain will be the first EU country to vote on leaving the European Union — the so-called Brexit. Is this the beginning of the end of the European Union?

Donald Tusk: I am not a prophet. I can only hope that the Brits will vote against leaving. Still, this is a historic moment. You can feel it. Something old ends, something new begins. But I am sure that the EU will survive, even if the costs will be high.

What begins?

Tusk: The financial and refugee crises have led to insecurities and a rebellion against political correctness, as well as to the rise of anti-establishment movements. We are witnessing a great sense of instability and a rejection of the political mainstream coming from different sides, the radical right and left, or often without any ideological base. And the British referendum could reinforce this mood.

To what degree would the Brexit harm the EU?

Tusk: Every family knows: a divorce is traumatic for everyone involved. Economically speaking, it would be a disadvantage for everyone in the EU, but in the first place for the UK. Politically, it would encourage all radical anti-Europeans from the inside of numerous member states. 

Moreover the day the Brits would leave the EU, our external enemies will open a bottle of champagne. We should do everything to spoil that party.

Daniel Biskup

What would leaving the EU mean for the Brits?

Tusk: The leave campaign contains a very clear message: "Let us leave, nothing will change, everything will stay as before". Well, it will not. Not only economic implications will be negative for the UK, but first and foremost geopolitical. Do you know why these consequences are so dangerous? Because in the long-term they are completely unpredictable. As a historian, I am afraid this could in fact be the start of the process of destruction of not only the EU but also of the Western political civilization.

You just said "divorce." How would the divorce from the Brits develop?

Tusk: Cancelling all treaty obligations and connections would be very sad, but relatively easy. It would take about two years. It would be much more difficult to negotiate the new relationship afterwards. Every single one of the, then, 27 EU member states plus the European Parliament would have to agree on the overall settlement. This would take at least five years, I am afraid, and without any guarantee of a success.

Why are so many Brits immune to these arguments?

Tusk: Social moods are determined more by emotions rather than rational analyses or economic interests, not only in the UK. What is specific for the UK is the very fact of organizing the referendum, that is a result of a sequence of events and decisions in the parties' internal politics, which in the end turned out to be a big gamble.

Daniel Biskup

Euro, Ukraine, refugees: Ever since it was founded the EU hasn't been in such trouble. What exactly went so terribly wrong over the last few years?

Tusk: If we believe that the EU is only a fair-weather event we will be doomed. The EU cannot be an answer only to the tragedies of the past but also to the problems of the future. This is why we have to deal with the crises, which are mostly not home- made but came from the outside. We must understand that the geopolitical holidays are over. It's time to go back to school where there will be only hard exams to take.

Is the EU too sluggish with its 28 members? In 2004, ten new states were granted access at the same time, including your home country Poland.

Tusk: First, none of the current crises have anything to do with the EU's enlargement. Second, nothing would be better today if Europe were divided or smaller. Today we have to say loud and clear that the crises, which have affected Europe cannot serve as a pretext for its disintegration. A mini-Europe would be the worst response to the maxi problems we have to face. It is finally worth realizing that Europe today consists of small countries, and those that don't know it yet.

Daniel Biskup

In the row about the refugee policy, Europe was, in fact, divided. At times, there was almost a war of words.

Tusk: Many militant conflicts began with war-like words. Yes, this worries me. The blame game is currently more popular in the EU than football. But maybe there is also a good side to this. We now talk more honestly and emotionally with each other. Not in the soulless Euro-lingo of earlier times.

Why was Germany left alone in the refugee crisis by most EU partners?

Tusk: Wait a second. Given the size of their populations, other countries have also taken in great numbers of refugees. So Germany was not left alone and should not play the martyr. This is as inaccurate as the accusation that Germany’s open borders are to be blamed for the refugee crisis.

Was Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orbán right when he said in September 2015: "The refugees are a German problem?"

Tusk: My advice to everyone without exception in Europe is the following: "If you want to criticize anyone for anything, start from yourself".

Was it a solo run by the German Chancellor?

Tusk: Although we did have a difference of opinion on the migration crisis from time to time, every day I am glad that Angela Merkel is the German Chancellor, as she tries to combine a sense of responsibility with morality and values. Because this is the essence of Europe. However, even Europe cannot take in an infinite number of refugees. Now Germany also understands that. Open domestic borders require controlling the external borders. This now works better and better, and soon the distribution of refugees will also work, believe me.

Daniel Biskup

Has closing the borders on the Balkans, in truth, helped the Chancellor politically?

Tusk: Closing the Balkans route first at the Macedonian-Greek border was the turning point for the refugee crisis ...

... which, however, the Chancellor heavily criticized.

Tusk: ... later came the agreement with Turkey. And on those two solutions we worked hand in hand. Now the situation is under control.

Daniel BiskupThis deal comes at a price. Turkish head of state Erdogan curtails the freedom of the press and opinion. Still, the EU offers money and benefits to Turkey. Can Erdogan blackmail Europe?

Tusk: Nothing in life is for free, including this agreement. However, we will not accept violations of the freedom of the press and opinion. You can believe me when I say how important they have been for my whole life.

Yes, Turkey is a difficult partner, but the most reliable one in the region, and the country is facing a difficult situation: weekly terrorist attacks, unsafe borders with Syria, Iraq and Iran. Plus over two million refugees in the country. That is why we have to offer them both solidarity but also criticism.

When will the Turks receive visa freedom?

Tusk: Once they fulfill all of the requirements, without any exception. The negotiations will probably last till October, but we are constantly making progress.

When will Turkey become a EU member?

Tusk: Not in its current state.

Last question: Will Donald Trump become the next US President?

Tusk: I have been with my wife for 38 years now. She says: “One Donald is more than enough."

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